>> if americans of every bakground stanand up anday enough, we have suffered too much pain and care too mh about our children to allow this to continue, and then change will come. >> the right to keepnd bear arms. is it being infringed?

>> if he tried to override the second amendment, in any way, i believe it would be an impeachable offen. >> is it being abused? >> if you think you will never be touched by gun violence you are fooling yourself. >> the debt ceiling debate continues. >> are not aead beat nation. >> we all know the issue here is spending. >> what are the risks of huge defense cuts? >> operations, maintenance, and trading will be gutted. we will ground the aircraft retuturn chips to court, and sharply curtail training across the force. >> a bill before the wyoming state legislature would make a federal legend a person trying to enforce a ban on farm guilty of a funny. there are similar measures under

considation in nnessee and tetexas. the governor in mississippi wants to make it illegegal in the state to enforce any new federal n laws. how many tis have we had this debate? ththis time after the murders of the children in newtown, conn. the president tells us is different. signed 23 executive orders aimed at reducing gun violence and has urged congress to reinstate a ban on so-called assault weapons, limit the size of the magazines, and mandate criminal background checks for all and sales. he is also o asking americans to put heat on members of congress to get there. >> ask for a member of congress if they support universal background checks to keep guns out of the wrong hands, and if they say no, ask them why not. >> and our response predictably was immediate. >> are the president's kids more foreign than yours? and why is he's skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his schools are protected by armed guards at their schools? mr. obama demands the wealthy pay theheir faishare of taxes

but he is just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of secucurity. protection for their kids and gun-free zones for hours. ours. >> jay carney said that the nra ad was r repugnant and cowardly. the nra says that the ad was not in anyone's children in particular. anyone the claims otherwise they say is intention to try to kid ththe topic and is missing the int. incidentally, once the president talked about gun violce, sales went through the roof. can ththe president moving now to this time around? >> there is more desire for control than ever bui do not think congress will budge on the big stuff. it is not going to get done. what the nra did was odiou i think the president is on the high ground, but i do not think he will get done real gun-

control. >> these 23 executive action re fairly trivial, there was nothing major about it. i think it will not have any effect, it was the appearance of motion. the three big items on the table for congress, the assault weapons ban, the limit on the size of the magazine clip, and universal background checks. i think the last one has v very strong public opinion hind it. it is likely to pass to the other two are not liklyo pass. >> charles is right, it is up in the0-plus percent range the idea of universal background checks. i'm still not convinced it wil pass because of the influenence of ththe gun lobby and the way that we have redistricted so that we have smanyny safe seats. you can tell something about the tenor of this debate by the fact that you s the former attorney gegeneral, memrsf congress --

one of looking and articles of impeachment over the president -- over his executive orders, even before they were out. is right, the executive orders, they are not muc not that heas the power to do much. he knows he does not have much. >> first of all, the nra ad invokingng the president's daughters was beyond to deaf. it was mean-spirited small- minded, and below the belt, haful to the nra's position. at is a preliminary. let me give ththe these facts as we go intoto the debebatate. in the to the years of this country, from the revolutionary war through both world w wars, 659,073 americans have died fighting for the country. since robert kennedy had a bullet put in his brain at the

ambassador hotel in los angeles in 1968, 1,260,781 americans have died from firearms. 80% of all firearm deaths of the first world -- of the 22 countries in the first world -- are here in the united states. that is not american n exit shall listen we can be proud of. if we cannot agree as a people to do something about that -- we did it about cigarettes,hank god. if we cannot do it, then let's just toss the wle towel in now. >> would happen with cigarettes we had a de-glamorization campaign. it became uncool we had tremendous success. smoking was cut in half and about 50 years. it is the result of a cuure. we are talking abouthootings and guns in this country. the equivalent would be the

glamorization of guns in hollywood, video games, in the culture, and on telelevision. so you would want to start with that but nobody in power will even speak about that. the other elements are the commitment of the dangerously mentally ill. there, the aclu and other lobbies are very strong. in those states ere commitment laws are strict, there is a lowelevel of this kind of violence. i agree with you, the elimination of guns but the only way you can only achieve anything is the way australia did. 1996, they had a massacre, and it confiscated all thehe guns, and there were none. that cannot be done -- you cannot do it in this country with its history culture, and the second amendment. >> the problem is, if you cannot everything, you do nothing. i do not think that is what you

want. we're not going to confiscate all guns in the united states. >> if you don't, it will haveve no affect. >> that is not true. >> when i was in the marine corps, a carton of lucky ststrikes was $2, f 10 packs. now it is $9 a pack. it was not jt simply the culture. they put a cost on it. we ought t to put a prohibitive tax on that. >> a well-regulated militia necessary to keep the securi of a free state, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, the second amendment. does tt speak to the right of securing the nation through a well regulated defensive establishment, or dagreand lesome guy in upstate new york to out his garage like an armory? > the supreme court differs on this. they have basically upheld the

second amendment.t. gives real protection to gun ners and makes this a moot issue. i think this is mostly for show right now and is a diversion -- i am all for gun-control. it is a diversion from what we need to do whi is dealing with the debt, climate other things policians do not want to deal with. >> i do not think it is a sideshow when you have massacres like we have had in the last year, not just newtown. and justice scalia's opinion said that the gornment is free to regulate the kis of weapons that people carry. > if your therapt things you may be affected, should he or

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computer sysm to figure out the solutution, it wacommon sense. mentally ill people should not havve cess to guns. criminals should not have access to gununs. >> comnts at the we will see how easy y it is to enforce. new york governrnor andrew cuomo citing the toughehest laws in the nation. ththe shooters at virginia tech, colorado both rerececeived the the health coueling. mental health professionals who believa patient has been a credible teat to e a gun illegally, they have toeport that information to a ment health director. ththat person will need to go to the crcriminal justice establblishment, who could then go after the fire arm. critics say this nullifies t the doct-patient relationship. we have a board certified psychiatrist here. what do you think of the law? there is nothing new here. in just wh every state if a

patient kills -- tells you they want to kill someone or themselves, youot only have the right to mourn the person or te the authoririties or commit the person as i've done in some states, l likeik m massachusetts you have an affirmative obligation. this is another executive order that is being into motion, quite nicece b doesn't change anything. those on the right to worry about a new normal of f doctor- patient relationships, it is not. is the way it has always been. >> this skirts a difficult estionon in some ways.s. anyone who deals with public health pice, trauma surgeons, like my husband these people, usually yoger males,ho are -- clely have psychotic breaks over and over again their families are at t a despr of what to do about it, and there is no ability to commit them for

any sustained period of time. once they're not an immediate threat to themselves or others you cannot hold them. >> we used to ha statate mental institutions. those institutions opened up, in many cases, the people in them had no ple to go, other than the streets. >> we are not going back to that. those institutions were barbaric and mediel. because people have constitutional and legal rights, we are not going back to that. >> but there is no place to put people. you could wait wks for a bad for someoneho is extremely mentallyangerous. >> you have the york and wyoming where you can walk into the public gallery in the state legislature with a firearm and witness whwhat ihappening on the floor. >> and barars in wyoming. >> only 26 states ban guns where

a alcohol is sererved. >> and yet the massacrere occred in connecticut, not wyoming. >> states obviously have different ctures, values, different political imperatives. that is the reality of f new york. you had the most draconian and some would say the mostt progressive control of private fire arms of any place in the country. but as i look at this, right now, are weoing to go into the debate betweween private versus public safety? isn't that the area we are treading into? perhaps truscan answer this better than i. the treatment for those who are mentally disturb is pharmacological. it is not institution. just another p prescription. am i wrong?

>> that is true. the tragedy is, in the kennedy era, when he started commititted to mental health services, the idea was you close this debate pits, put thehem in the community you give them the medication whicich was new, and then you did continuing care. the proem is, they clolose the ake pits, they have the trucks, but they never build t local community facilities. so you are released and discharged omedication. you stop, a are psychotic again and nev restart medicacation again. >> states do not have any money. they do nott have money for state universities. they are bus

>> america cannot afford another debate with this congress about whether or not they should pay

the bills t they have alreadady racked up. the financial well-being o of the american people is n leveraged to be used. the full faith and cret of the united states of america is not a bargaining chip. >> america has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. americs deserve better. i therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase america's debt limit. center barack obama, march 16, 2006. >> it is not good for obama. but he also knew that his book would not make a difference. >> come on. he said what he said. >> of course he did. >> do not cover for him. >> people do differe things at different times. >> there has been a shift here. there was a deeply depressing column by david brooks o friday that said the era of the grand bargain is over. what he meant by that was, there

was a feeling over the past few years that both sides would come together and cut taxes and spending and get a g grand bargain pier that seems to be a lost opportunity. obama seems to be moving away with it -- from it. they will get into squabbles over the debt ceiling, buthey will not deal with the pblem in an essential way. >> i am reading robert carroll's latest book on lbj. it looked like jack kennedy was having the same problem with the congress. evererything was being sidetracked. >> that is true. i would say this as far as what senator obama said in 2006, consistency is the hobgoblin of small mes. but there was a different attitude. we have raised the debt ceiling 70-plus times. the congress has voted to do it. there was always a sense of we

are not going to vote e to rai the other guys debt ceiling but there was always the understa that we would provide the votes in the final ananalysis. the president's party y did that. right now, what you have is a situation where the republican party is reduced to its lowest standing in the history of "the wall streeeet journal" nbc poll. the only thing that is worse is john boehner, 18% favorable. this is not a formidable parker. >> "politico" spoke to some unnamed republican leaders and they said that party leadaders have appeared to shut down the government to make a point. they may need to shut dowjust to get out of the system. we may need to do that for member-management purposes so that they can show their constituents they are fighting. get it out of the system kept?

this is not a gastrointestinal system. thiss the government. >> i would offer therapy and not closing the government. the republicans have had a pretty unhappy experience with brinksmanship. twice in the gingrich years shut down the government, and they got shellacked. they tried to force the issue using the debt ceiling in 2011, the fiscal cliff in january. i was as gung-ho as any of them to force obama into cutting spending. the government spendinis spendiding us into penury. but it faed because you cannot govern froone house of t congress. that is the truth. i wrote a column this morning ying essentially you have to recognize you cannot use these things because, in the end, you will be humiliated. ratings will be low, d you

will not get the spending ts anyways. i think that adds some realism. certainly, i do not think the republic house is going to want to go over the cliff. >> let's think about what happened. the president has gone from dealing with the big problem that faces t whole country, to try to destroy the republican party. this is exactly what the public does not want. we are turning to small petty brinksmanship. let's see if we can crush the republican par. he has giv up on a larger and re noble goal. >> i am not going to say who iss right or wrong in the negotiations, they were very close. but the reason the grand bargain has twice fallen through was because john boehner knew that he could not sell it to his leadership. when you have the will to negotiate with you play as hard as you have to. >> evan wrong.

when the republicans o organize a firing squad, they organize themselves into a circle. barack obama is not.

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and for a kid... nathan. tadpole. ... to feel like a kid again. because the world's biggest challenges deserve even bigger solutions. poweul answers. veverizon. >> the senate armed services coittee announced th week it has scheduled hearings on the former center chuck hagel's nomination to be the secretary of the treasury -- defense. there is talk about pulling a terror of the gulf. we would only have one t there. i wouldd thi of what is happening in algeria and other places, you'd want to have to review or more. >> you could probably cut the defenseudt by a lot. thquestion is how. congress, theiticians, will want to preserve the biticket items that are expected to provovide jobs in the distri and ey will cut readiness

made its, money fofor our troops. congress will be on the wrong side of the struggle i hope the administration can move the ball. >> that is the reason why the only way to cut out obsolete bases was to appoint a commission so that it would not be political. congress could only say yes or no. i think it should appoint a commission to lolook at where you cut spending, and do the same procedure. yes or no, nothing else. >>in in evan's book, there is a wonderful part where the secrcretary of einhower ss that we cannot cut any more. eisenhower says,ell them that theyill t one more star, and i guarantee you will have a stampede. >> we had one of those, simpson-

bowles. the repuican sabotageses that te. i i agree, defense spending can be cut, but look at one thing personnel has skyrocketed inn price because of an all- volueer force. >> ok. last word. see you next weeeek.

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